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Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules

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Ecastro715 Joined: 11.18.2008 Age: 25 Total Games: 37 W/L %: 75.68 Avg CD: 1.27 Full Stats	Posted: Oct 21st 2009, 10:41 pm Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules "footofgod" If they made it to where it could bounce after making contact with a cup, wouldn't it ? But then, once again, just not very fun to me. I don't see a need to go play an inferior, less complicated version of the game. I guess to each their own, but I want people to understand there are perfectly legitimate reasons to dissent. And to everyone on here that acts like a bunch of elitists with their hypocrite attitude, their "you think you're good until you come here," shut the fuck up, you're ruining any ability for me to believe that this is just a big, fun event as opposed to a frat boy ego match. And until you've got to the finals, you're in that same group of people who think they know shit (as if there is shit to know about throwing balls at cups). Too bad no one gives a shit what YOU think.
Grove Joined: 12.03.2008 Age: 25 Total Games: 108 W/L %: 64.81 Avg CD: 0.97 Full Stats	Posted: Oct 21st 2009, 10:58 pm Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules i was going to post "why hasn't castro posted on this yet?" and then i jumped over to the 2nd page. rofl, gg big guy
gshunt Joined: 10.25.2008 Age: 24 Total Games: 234 W/L %: 72.65 Avg CD: 1.69 Full Stats	Posted: Oct 21st 2009, 11:27 pm Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules To be fair, in my original response I actually tried to cut you some slack and give you some benefit of the doubt (more so than most would, and arguably should on this forum). However, saying that my post was demonstrating a big frat boy ego may be a bit presumptious (Although as everyone can attest to my ego is wildly overinflated). What I said in essence was: Everyone thinks they are good until they come to the WS, then they realize how much more difficult the competition is. An example that you might be familiar with is the fact that oftentimes at a small kickback somebody new will show up who thinks they can just win at beer pong (a la that frat boy ego), and anybody who just plays a fair amount will crush them. The difference is that everyone at the WS is the best at their homegame essentially, but it doesnt mean they're anywhere near the best at such a large tournament (in fact almost universally they aren't, unless they are say Pop, Prusch, etc etc, and dont bitch if I didnt list you here I dont feel like typing a top 10 list lol). As for the "what is there to know about making ping pong balls into cups" comment. Well I'm my post was about knowledge it was just refering to skill, and statistically some people just make more cups than others (thats why they win more often), so some people are just better. I was saying that at the WS even with someone who practicing the bounce lean there are players that in my opinion would just be better and still shoot a higher percentage and thus win with a good old fashioned throw. You also said you don't want anyone to talk who hasn't won the WS? Somewhat limits the discussion I would think. I'm sorry if I am not skilled enough to refer to how good people are at the WS are lol. Perhaps that wasn't what you were getting at, but it came across that way. I've seen plenty of the top players play and know what it takes to be successful, and finished 25th last year in my first WS and felt I could have done better. So I'm not utter trash at making ping pong balls into cups posting this, just mostly trash at randomly making ping pong balls into cups. And like Cory (polohero) said, its totally worth the 500. Try and find someone who went to WS IVV and thought it wasnt worth the entrance fee, they will be few and far between (I'd guess at tops maybe 16 out of the 416 teams). And by all appearences it should be even better this year. But my gut tells me you aren't even entertaining the idea of coming out to Vegas, showing us all up, taking the money, and just enjoying yourself. Alright, I've written too much already, and rarely respond on here. Take it for what you will.
billy Joined: 01.01.1991 Age: 30 Total Games: 1 W/L %: 100 Avg CD: 1.00 Full Stats	Posted: Oct 22nd 2009, 07:31 am Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules footofgod, a few thoughts/comments for you: - We actually had a somewhat similar observation about bouncing into cups when shooting at a larger rack. I don't think our observations were quite as extreme as yours, but we did feel like bouncing could be an easy way to knock out the first several cups (or more). We proposed to remove bouncing from the game entirely, but nearly everybody in the beer pong tournament community opposed this change. - On that note, we do genuinely care about the game and what people think. I guarantee you that we have internally thought about every rule more than most anybody, and furthermore, we have talked to more people than most anybody. For example, we talk to all of the league organizers. If somebody randomly calls me up for a question relating to an order, I usually ask random questions to get his/her perspective on rules and the game in general. There is obviously no way to please everybody, but I want to make it clear that we do our best to collect the most common thoughts about the rules of the game for tournament play and adjust our rules accordingly, subject to any specific constraints we may have relating to the scale of the event. - I note that people are often aggressive on our forums, especially to (1) newcomers and (2) people that have differing opinions. I do sometimes wish there was not such an aggressive approach, but there are times where it is understandable. For example, there are people that have come that do not try to create a respectable position - they just come to stir up emotions. I also feel that this aggressiveness we sometimes see is something you see in many forums. In other words, I do not think it is a "problem" specific to the beer pong community that uses our forums. - For the most part, your tone has been respectable, and I appreciate that. There are certainly some parts I disagree with, but that is okay. However, you have also said some things yourself that are somewhat aggressive. For example, you make comments about when people "truly have fun with the game." I find it hard to believe that most people at our event are only "non-truly" having fun with the game because of the rules. As another example, you said, "I don't see a need to go play an inferior, less complicated version of the game." With all respect, who are you to label our rules as a rule set that leads to "an inferior . . . version of the game"? I don't think anybody, including us, is in a position to say "this version of the game is superior and this version is inferior." What I can say is this: given numerous factors, many of which are specific to running large scale beer pong tournaments, we have created what we feel is the best set of rules for The WSOBP (and perhaps other tournament play). At the same time, we are very open to changing or tweaking the rules if the beer pong community feels the changes improve the game and if the proposed changes do not conflict with some of our constraints.
footofgod Joined: 10.21.2009 Total Games: 0 W/L %: 0 Avg CD: 0 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 8th 2009, 05:38 pm Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules I'm not going to respond to everything, because it seems like we agree to disagree, but "billy" With all respect, who are you to label our rules as a rule set that leads to "an inferior . . . version of the game"? s. I'm not being disingenuous here: nobody naturally plays by these rules. If forced to choose between these rules and virtually any other commonplace collection of rules, a huge majority would (and do) choose against these rules. This is why so many people who like beer pong see this and go "what?" These rules aren't a representation of the game as most of us know it, and to take this minority collaboration and label it the WORLD SERIES OF BEER PONG seems unfair, and to add the environment people meet when they come here is insulting on top of that. Look, the point of my post is that the rules are really messed up the way they stand, despite what I really trust is your best efforts on a difficult topic. There's lots of loopholes and problems, and the solution isn't to make it simpler: you have to rise to the challenge and get the job done if you want to represent yourselves as the "World Series of Beer Pong." For instance: can I bring an air horn and blow it every time my opponents shoot, scaring the living shit out of them and making it virtually impossible? What about shining a flash in their eyes? None of these possible problems are written into the rules. I'm sorry if it sounds insulting to say that I think you guys have fallen short, but I'm not being insulting, it just really adds up to that.
Magical_3s Joined: 05.31.2009 Age: 27 Total Games: 18 W/L %: 44.44 Avg CD: -0.22 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 02:52 am Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules obv footofgod has never played in a tourney or sat... yes there are distractions and u must not have a competitve bone in ur body to talk down the WSOBP... besides there is no way to be able to enforce the "house rule" that everyone would like to play by.... its just impossible... so to have a standard set of rules that everyone that actually plays in tourneys or sats works out better...
DrunkenBear Joined: 02.19.2009 Age: 26 Total Games: 82 W/L %: 50 Avg CD: -0.26 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 11:37 am Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules Is bean bags, pool, darts, poker, bowling, any of them considered a sport? Is there some sort of set rules for them at all?
bondball7 Joined: 02.19.2008 Age: 28 Total Games: 0 W/L %: 0 Avg CD: 0 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 03:04 pm Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules "footofgod" I And to everyone on here that acts like a bunch of elitists with their hypocrite attitude, their "you think you're good until you come here," shut the fuck up. Ummm cat calling the kettle black;) "footofgod" I'm not being disingenuous here: nobody naturally plays by these rules. If forced to choose between these rules and virtually any other commonplace collection of rules, a huge majority would (and do) choose against these rules. This is why so many people who like beer pong see this and go "what?" These rules aren't a representation of the game as most of us know it, and to take this minority collaboration and label it the WORLD SERIES OF BEER PONG seems unfair, and to add the environment people meet when they come here is insulting on top of that. Look, the point of my post is that the rules are really messed up the way they stand, despite what I really trust is your best efforts on a difficult topic. There's lots of loopholes and problems, and the solution isn't to make it simpler: you have to rise to the challenge and get the job done if you want to represent yourselves as the "World Series of Beer Pong." For instance: can I bring an air horn and blow it every time my opponents shoot, scaring the living shit out of them and making it virtually impossible? What about shining a flash in their eyes? None of these possible problems are written into the rules. I'm sorry if it sounds insulting to say that I think you guys have fallen short, but I'm not being insulting, it just really adds up to that. 1) Give it a few more years and see which rules are more common across the nation. 2) Make your own tournament with your supposed fun universal rules and see if it grows to the level of the WSOBP. Make sure you hire tons of security though. 3) If you are so good, just pay your $20 and win a satellite so you don't have to pay the $500 to enter the WSOBP. And then when you get to vegas win the WSOBP and the $50,000 so you can jump back on the forum and say you taught us all a lesson for a measly $20.
mikepop66 Joined: 11.30.2006 Age: 27 Total Games: 234 W/L %: 84.19 Avg CD: 2.29 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 08:37 pm Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules "footofgod" I'm going to be perfectly honest, I don't like competitive beer pong. I think it is a joke, it's not a sport, you guys are not athletes, and not a game meant to be taken this seriously: it is meaningless male competition at its finest and that's the whole point. Take out the "meaningless," and you take out the true meaning. Also, the rules in place make it really fucking boring, and the fact that you don't have to drink your beer and get shitfaced makes it little more than the World Series of Bozo the Clown. ************************************************ ******************** Before I continue, don't waste your time telling me to come win $50,000, telling me I can't shoot, etc. Shove it up your ass if you can't put your dissent into a solid rebuttal. The above is just my opinion, and I've said why. ************************************************ ********************* So, my not-so-new strategy is to bounce every shot, at least until you get to a rack of 3 cups, using maximum leaning. Doing this myself, I get to 3 cups in a maximum of 5 turns, and an average of a little more than 4 (usually its 3 cups a turn, sometimes 2, rarely 1). The key is to HOW you bounce the ball. If you are leaning almost all the way over the table, you can very, very lightly heft the ball up, making it very slowly and efforlessly bounce to above the rack. It's practically like taking a ten inch shot, but with a little (not much, I make the cup I aim for usually) less accuracy. Also, if you do mess up, which is hard, your chances of getting an accidental cup are monumental. I can say that, like this, with these rules, I shoot on a WSOBP level, and probably even better at a rack of 6 or more (we're talking 9 out of 10 shots). Here are a short list of other advantages to this system: (1) with a little bit of practice, your shot and your teammate's shot will be almost indistiguishable because it is such an easy method (2) you practically can't get distracted (3) anybody, bad OR good, can do it (4) takes FULL advantage of leaning, your arm is practically completely outstretched and it doesn't cramp the shot (4) WHEN you lose, there's no way it will be by much unless you're an absolute failure The common criticisms are, and are likely going to be again: (1) no true player with self-respect would do this and (2) this is a crutch for people who can't shoot, and you're a total queer if you do this. Here is my response to that: (1) Funny, I say the same thing about leaning and, really, about playing in the WSOBP in the first place. The common response is "if you're competing for $50,000, you're going to do whatever gives you the advantage." Well, there you have it. Is anyone gonna tell me that, if they could just "make" more cups, they wouldn't? It's the same thing as leaning if you're tall- exploiting the rules to create an advantage for yourself and, unless you shoot 100%, you WILL make more cups, and therefore have better odds of winning. And if you can master a normal shot, you can master a really, REALLY easy aimed bounce. (2) No. What if you can shoot. What if the champs used this, and when they got down to 3 cups just 1-2-3'd it and shot about 6 perfect games a match? And,look like a total queer? You're at the WSOBP. To me you already look like a total queer, and 7 foot people leaning makes them look like Freddy fucking Mercury, so let's just agree to disagree here. Once again, the argument is "whatever works," and that's what I'm saying. So, I'd love to see some average team make a good run using this strategy. I'm sure they won't because beer pong is SO SERIOUS to everyone here, even if it totally worked and you could shoot near-perfect games every time, people would still want to prove that their competitors. But that's my whole point, the way the WSOBP is set up, it's not a competition already, and the rules are already exploited, so you might as well look like a fag and make more cups, JUST like leaning to gain an advantage and JUST like not getting hammered to keep an advantage. There is no difference. no1 cares what u have to say. u wana have a getting drunk tounry and put up 50 grand towards it let us know if not who cares. u can congratulate me on winning the 50k. i made my money do u think me and any1 else cares what u think about it? ill buy u some tissues
prusch Joined: 08.22.2006 Age: 30 Total Games: 145 W/L %: 77.24 Avg CD: 1.70 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 21st 2009, 12:42 pm Post subject: Bouncing Every Shot- Exploiting the rules "footofgod" I'm not being disingenuous here: nobody naturally plays by these rules. If forced to choose between these rules and virtually any other commonplace collection of rules, a huge majority would (and do) choose against these rules. This is a great point, and is an issue. People see the different rules and are confused. But most people have never played for money. The game is different with money on the line. With 50 g's, it's a LOT different. You seen loopholes in these rules, but really, they have been tweaked to get rid of a lot of problems that come up with common house rules. I know some people that heard about the WSOBP, and decided "if these are the rules that I need to play with to win 50 g's, then that's how we're going to play". I know that sounds elitist, but house game rules present real problems with large scale competitive events that can't have a ref at each table. Each individual rule that differs from typical house rules has been debated heavily. There would just be too much of an issue if the World Series ended like the Road Trip Beer Pong movie ended (with a banked death cup shot). "footofgod" For instance: can I bring an air horn and blow it every time my opponents shoot, scaring the living shit out of them and making it virtually impossible? What about shining a flash in their eyes? On these notes, I'm not sure what happened, but I remember a stipulation about no laser pointers, flashes, or artificial noise makers. Regardless - that would not be tolerated.