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Joined: 11.10.2006

Age: 29
Total Games: 116
W/L %: 71.55
Avg CD: 1.20



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 2nd 2009, 10:50 pm
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • I had a thought about how to run tournaments to keep the crowds a'coming. Sooo...it seems like there is a general consensus that people stop coming because the same teams always win blah...blah...blah. Well, what if instead of having a single code for an entry to the Series there were eight codes needed to sign up. Stay with me here.
     
    Now that we have eight codes per one entry to the Series we can divide them up at tourneys. Let's say we give four codes (1/2 of what is needed to enter the world series) to each player on the winning team. This leaves 8 codes left to give out. For second you could give each player two codes (1/4 of a satty) and some cash, and then also give the players from the third place team two codes each.
     
    This does two main things:
    1. A lot of "amateur" teams get on a streak and make it near the top, but have trouble actually finishing with the win, so they can win a partial entry. This way they will feel like they accomplished something and are closer to getting their trip (which they are).
    2. A person that has got third in a tournament will have 1/4 of entry, thereby increasing their will to keep going to tourneys and complete the entry.
     
    I obviously realize that there is a lot to consider in starting a system like this, such as when people come down to the end of the year with only two codes. In a scenario like this we can assign values to the codes that will decrease your entry fee by 1/8 of the total price (per code). Of course, each code increases in value as the price increases during the year.
     
    I have a lot more to say on the subject and there are a ton of things that need considered, but I think with a well thought out system this could attract more regular players.
     
    Some of the other ideas on here I don't think will work in the long run. For instance, there are too many good players to just eliminate teams that have won from playing with each other again. Awesome! Foster can't play with Austin again cause they already won one...so then Foster just picks up Kessler and wins another one, and so on and so forth.
     
    I'm just throwing this out there to see if it sparks any interest, or if I completely missed something that would make this fail miserably...I'm sure the brilliant minds that post on the bpong forums will have run circles around the goods/bads of this by the end of tomorrow.
     
    Note: I realize in the above scenario that codes would only need to be split into 1/4 values, however, I thought going with the 8 way split would give the people that run the tournaments more freedom to divvy them up how they see fit (different size tourney's, different buy-in amounts, etc.).
  • Last edited on Dec 2nd 2009, 10:51 pm
Joined: 09.20.2006

Age: 31
Total Games: 42
W/L %: 69.05
Avg CD: 1.29



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 2nd 2009, 11:03 pm
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • the fat kid is on to something - i like it alot.  3rd place is usually either nothing or a 25$ gift certificate to a bar ill never go to.  if i got a prize that encouraged me to go to MORE tournaments - brilliant.
     
    i still like my idea best.  previous winners can only play in tournaments with TOTAL ROOKIES who have never played in a satellite.  this brings new blood to the game - and the guys will definitely be excited after undoubtedly having success alongside a pro.
     
    none of this means a damn however without some better quality control over satellites i discussed in the "satellite tournaments" thread.  if you have tournament directors making and changing rules on the fly and inserting themselves into tournaments after explictly stating they wouldn't the brand will be shot in new players eyes no matter what.
Joined: 11.10.2006

Age: 29
Total Games: 116
W/L %: 71.55
Avg CD: 1.20



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 3rd 2009, 02:57 pm
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • "the
    i still like my idea best.  previous winners can only play in tournaments with TOTAL ROOKIES who have never played in a satellite.  this brings new blood to the game - and the guys will definitely be excited after undoubtedly having success alongside a pro.
     
    none of this means a damn however without some better quality control over satellites i discussed in the "satellite tournaments" thread.  if you have tournament directors making and changing rules on the fly and inserting themselves into tournaments after explictly stating they wouldn't the brand will be shot in new players eyes no matter what.

    I like your idea as well, but what makes someone a TOTAL rookie? What do you consider a kid that's been playing on regulation tables since he was 19, and has become as good as the recognized 'pros', but no one knows who he is...He could come out and fire a perfect tourney right off the bat.
     
    I do feel you though, the champ, on the importance of quality control over the satellites. Luckily, I haven't had to deal with too many shenanigans in the tourneys out here, but I read the stories on the forums, and from what it sounds like there are some real shady cats running tournaments in other parts of the country. I could see this definitely turning off new players to the serious side of the game.
  • Last edited on Dec 3rd 2009, 02:57 pm
Joined: 04.23.2008

Age: 25
Total Games: 39
W/L %: 46.15
Avg CD: -0.56



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 3rd 2009, 03:21 pm
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • Ok I saw a few people that though making the table longer would make itr more fair for everyone blah blah....in actuality making the table longer or the cups smaller would lower everyone's shooting percentage an equal amount. So the bad or new players would be just as far back as they are now. This is obviously not the answer to the problem.
    I think the answer lies in making equality in the game, by
Joined: 04.23.2008

Age: 25
Total Games: 39
W/L %: 46.15
Avg CD: -0.56



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 3rd 2009, 03:30 pm
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • 1) Having an official sanctioning body with a ratings system that applies to every player, so that tournaments can be capped on a talent basis. Like I described above. However, this idea will take a little while before it can be implemented. Until then I have one other idea that is already out there I just don't feel like it's implemented enough.
     

    2)LEAGUES! Weekly leagues would go miles in getting people to come out and get used to the difference in rules. Like I described above, the perception of the dunk, won't be a negative thing if your first experiences with leaning are positive as opposed to negative. Its easier for guys to go have fun if they go to a league event. For two reasons.
     
    A.College guys and alot of potential beer pong players aren't loaded. They can't afford or see a point in paying 40 or 50 bucks to go play two games and leave a bar with nothing but shame and a hate for the rules. If its a league though they spend the 40 or 50 and get to play like 15 games a week for two months. They come back because theyve already paid and they get used to the rules. They get more games for their money.
     
    B. Theu can come along at their own speed and don't always have to play the hard teams. They can find another garvbage team and build up their skills. Plus it will give someone a reason to go out a specific night of the week. Its like Dart Leagues or Softball Leagues, that night that you play becomes synonomous in your life, with that sport or event. So you begin to associate the two and this will make people come back for leagues season after season.
Joined: 09.20.2006

Age: 31
Total Games: 42
W/L %: 69.05
Avg CD: 1.29



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 3rd 2009, 05:39 pm
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • "jhughes44"

    I like your idea as well, but what makes someone a TOTAL rookie? What do you consider a kid that's been playing on regulation tables since he was 19, and has become as good as the recognized 'pros', but no one knows who he is...He could come out and fire a perfect tourney right off the bat.
     

    My definition would just be a guy who's never attended a WSOBP/WBPT satellite or official tournament.  Obviously it would be up to the players to police this.
     
    As for the just turned 21 year old ringer - no big deal.  After he plays in one tournament he's no longer a rookie and eligible to play with bid winners.
Joined: 12.05.2008

Age: 28
Total Games: 34
W/L %: 47.06
Avg CD: -0.56



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 3rd 2009, 06:54 pm
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • "teamclutch1"

    A.College guys and alot of potential beer pong players aren't loaded. They can't afford or see a point in paying 40 or 50 bucks to go play two games and leave a bar with nothing but shame and a hate for the rules. If its a league though they spend the 40 or 50 and get to play like 15 games a week for two months. They come back because theyve already paid and they get used to the rules. They get more games for their money.

    I think one of the most important factors in enticing outsiders to buy in is include beer with buyin.  Of course only in the states that allow it, but im noticing now even in those states i see beer included less and less.  And as far as the swine flu debate, all u need is enough cups to give each team there own set of cups per buyin, and 1 pitcher per game.  It brings in alot more teams and people have alot more fun.
Joined: 11.18.2008

Age: 25
Total Games: 37
W/L %: 75.68
Avg CD: 1.27



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 4th 2009, 12:11 am
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • "jhughes44"
    I had a thought about how to run tournaments to keep the crowds a'coming. Sooo...it seems like there is a general consensus that people stop coming because the same teams always win blah...blah...blah. Well, what if instead of having a single code for an entry to the Series there were eight codes needed to sign up. Stay with me here.
     
    Now that we have eight codes per one entry to the Series we can divide them up at tourneys. Let's say we give four codes (1/2 of what is needed to enter the world series) to each player on the winning team. This leaves 8 codes left to give out. For second you could give each player two codes (1/4 of a satty) and some cash, and then also give the players from the third place team two codes each.
     
    This does two main things:
    1. A lot of "amateur" teams get on a streak and make it near the top, but have trouble actually finishing with the win, so they can win a partial entry. This way they will feel like they accomplished something and are closer to getting their trip (which they are).
    2. A person that has got third in a tournament will have 1/4 of entry, thereby increasing their will to keep going to tourneys and complete the entry.
     
    I obviously realize that there is a lot to consider in starting a system like this, such as when people come down to the end of the year with only two codes. In a scenario like this we can assign values to the codes that will decrease your entry fee by 1/8 of the total price (per code). Of course, each code increases in value as the price increases during the year.
     
    I have a lot more to say on the subject and there are a ton of things that need considered, but I think with a well thought out system this could attract more regular players.
     
    Some of the other ideas on here I don't think will work in the long run. For instance, there are too many good players to just eliminate teams that have won from playing with each other again. Awesome! Foster can't play with Austin again cause they already won one...so then Foster just picks up Kessler and wins another one, and so on and so forth.
     
    I'm just throwing this out there to see if it sparks any interest, or if I completely missed something that would make this fail miserably...I'm sure the brilliant minds that post on the bpong forums will have run circles around the goods/bads of this by the end of tomorrow.
     
    Note: I realize in the above scenario that codes would only need to be split into 1/4 values, however, I thought going with the 8 way split would give the people that run the tournaments more freedom to divvy them up how they see fit (different size tourney's, different buy-in amounts, etc.).

    brilliant idea! why i haven't thought of this before, i don't know. maybe it was all the beer.  you're smarter than you look, Mr. Kid, this idea may keep new teams flowing in and keep the regulars coming to every tourney. hopefully some local organizations adopt this, it would be interesting to see how well it works.
Joined: 09.28.2008

Age: 24
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W/L %: 0
Avg CD: 0



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 4th 2009, 12:58 am
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • has it ever been discussed about forming another major tourney sometime in the middle of the year with a different rule set to please some of the more casual/amateur players? example id say 90 percent of players start out learning with playing a no elbow rule. You use the same foot bar extender idea as someone mentioned before. I have encountered a lot of different teams that are outstanding pure shooters that are too skeptical at playing with the current rules because they dont like change. if the concern of keeping more amateur players into it is the focus then this might be something worth discussing. another thing that was brought up was changing the rebuttle rules. you could have 2 cups left and if the first player hits and the second misses its over, again 90 percent of players start playing with a rebuttle "shoot till you miss"(while alternating partner shots) scenario (1st shooter makes, 2nd misses then 1st shooter goes again). maybe implement this into this tourney and then see how it goes. if it does well then maybe ammend it into the actual world series. another rules that falls into that basic 101 of learning is choosing when you can rerack. only it can only be racked into forms that would lay consistant inside the pyramid i.e. 3 cup tri, 6 tri 4 cup diamond, 2 cups offset. plug that in there as well because more amateur teams are used to that as well. and other wise keep it same ws rollback rules and etc...so basically make it more adaptable to "house party" rules simplified to the very minimum.
Joined: 04.30.2008

Age: 26
Total Games: 147
W/L %: 74.83
Avg CD: 2.01



  • Quote

    Posted: Dec 4th 2009, 10:00 am
    Post subject: the future of pong

  • "powerhouse4life"
    has it ever been discussed about forming another major tourney sometime in the middle of the year with a different rule set to please some of the more casual/amateur players? example id say 90 percent of players start out learning with playing a no elbow rule. You use the same foot bar extender idea as someone mentioned before. I have encountered a lot of different teams that are outstanding pure shooters that are too skeptical at playing with the current rules because they dont like change. if the concern of keeping more amateur players into it is the focus then this might be something worth discussing. another thing that was brought up was changing the rebuttle rules. you could have 2 cups left and if the first player hits and the second misses its over, again 90 percent of players start playing with a rebuttle "shoot till you miss"(while alternating partner shots) scenario (1st shooter makes, 2nd misses then 1st shooter goes again). maybe implement this into this tourney and then see how it goes. if it does well then maybe ammend it into the actual world series. another rules that falls into that basic 101 of learning is choosing when you can rerack. only it can only be racked into forms that would lay consistant inside the pyramid i.e. 3 cup tri, 6 tri 4 cup diamond, 2 cups offset. plug that in there as well because more amateur teams are used to that as well. and other wise keep it same ws rollback rules and etc...so basically make it more adaptable to "house party" rules simplified to the very minimum.

    There is another Tournament in the middle of the year.  It is the World Pong Tour $50K in June.  It is the 13th-15th I think.  Aside from addressing your concern about leaning (no major tournament is likely to adhere to this idea) both of your other concerns are accounted for.  The rebuttal rules allow each player to shoot till he misses.  You also get to choose 2 re-racks from the formations you described, with the exception being the ability to take a straight line with 2 cups remaining.  The re-racks can be taken at the beginning of the turn, or after a team hits both shots and earns a rollback.  The overall feel of the first WPT tournament in AC was very much party like.  Everyone who went, I think, really enjoyed themselves.  
     
    And in case you were wondering, there are satellites for this tournament.  They are (mostly) all listed on worldpongtour.com.
     
    Oh, and there were also about 20 sluts (not that i would know anything about that) serving beer at the WPT AC tournament, so there's always that.
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