Beer Pong Forums: the future of pong

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the future of pong

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beerponggod Joined: 06.01.2008 Age: 36 Total Games: 73 W/L %: 72.6 Avg CD: 1.55 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 12:52 pm Post subject: the future of pong Yes, it is true, beer pong tournaments throughout the United States are lessening year by year. As more dominate teams form, the cream has clearly risen to the top. With this being said, many teams, average and poor are less and less inclined to show up to big tournaments, thus making the event not worth having in the first place, from a financial standpoint. Solutions are in order to give the hopeless some hope, to keep them coming back to tournaments. The tables should have a guard going straight down so players are unable to get 8-10 inches closer by sticking their foot all the way under the table. You could also go with smaller rimmed cups, or even higher cups with smaller rims. Also what we usually do, is if a team wins often, we will pay the teams bar tab to come into a tournament, give them a free buy in and lose a few games and be out of the tournament on purpose, thus giving teams more confidence, and a great memory to live on, where they will keep coming back and supporting the tournament. You would be surprised how far that goes in keeping players coming back. Also, you could promote your event by not having a buy in, and having teams buy their beer per game, so 5 bucks per game. That usually attracts many more teams, and they dont feel like they are paying to be in the tournament, they are just paying for their drinks and get a chance to win a beer pong tournament at no cost. Or you can include a kill the keg promotion where all the players in the tournament drink unlimited drafts while they are in the tournament. You need fresh marketing ideas to keep people coming back, and have them feel they are getting their moneys worth. Or you can even do a blind draw tournament, where people sign up and pay and then they draw to see who their partner is for that particular tournament With that being said, I think you will find, no matter what you do to change the tables, cups, balls, ect ect. The best players now, will be the best players after any changes made. Any disadvantage you make for the best players, will be the same disadvantage for the average player. As of now an average player can make 3, 4 or even 5 in a row in a game. I think they will get more discouraged if they miss 10 shots in a row on a tougher table, prolonging the thrashing they are getting from a better team. When I walk into a bar with a beer pong table, and kids want to play for cash, I play whatever rules they want and still kill them. Elbow rule, island cup, same cup game over, double sink, no racks, no mid turn racks, At the end of the day the top players will still be the top players, no matter what changes you make. Last edited on Nov 20th 2009, 01:19 pm
CC91 Joined: 09.06.2007 Age: 26 Total Games: 56 W/L %: 67.86 Avg CD: 1.45 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 12:55 pm Post subject: the future of pong As much as i hate to say it....and i know i will get blasted for even mentioning it....is to try and play with the damm elbow rule. The problem with pong being played on campuses and all that is that everyone plays with the stupid elbow rule, look at any video online where these youtube trolls go out and bash on the WS because we LEAN and DUNK the ball in. I dont even know how much longer tables would help, even though ive mentioned it couple times on here that longer n higher tables take away the perception of the dunk. This would be a complete de-evolution of pong, but since we are on the topic of poker, there is a lot more luck involved when ur standing completly upright and chucking hail marys at the cups....ppl annihilating the back rows and what not. Everyone on this site that takes pong seriously goes and aims and picks off the cups 1 by 1, and the kids that go out for fun that think they have a chance of winning get hammered and just chuck up the balls at wtv rack is in front of them, taking the skill aspect out of pong. Maybe it would have to go back and reach a point where referees would be needed and could help pong grow even further? ...But then again perhaps all we need is to get pong on TV, like poker and make it more mainstream and that will help ppl understand that leaning is the way its played? I really dont know, what if putting it on TV will just get more of those angry youtube trolls out and be a negative effect? I really dont know...... This is just what i think, because although the WS is looking at having its biggest year right now, it seems that all the avg players r disappearing......and something will need to be done about it... SORRY ABOUT MENTIONING BRINGIN BACK THE ER....dont hate on me too hard!
dub Joined: 01.01.1991 Age: 81 Total Games: 125 W/L %: 65.6 Avg CD: 1.09 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 01:08 pm Post subject: the future of pong I think everyone, everywhere has seen this trend continue. I haven't been to a tourney with more than 20 teams at it in a long, long time. Seems like the casual players have just stopped participating. How do we fix this? I'm not sure. Jamie had some good thoughts. Personally, I like the idea of only 1 satellite being allowed per person. It's a simple solution but it will upset all the elite players who travel around winning them to supplement their income. Lets also not forget that these elite players are important, too....and they won't be going away anytime soon. So shitting on their porches and telling them it's chocolate isn't really going to help much. Is the answer longer tables? I'm going to have to say no. What will people do with the tables they've spent hundreds of dollars on? I personally have 3, and would be pretty bummed if all of the sudden my tables became obsolete, I guess. Ultimately, money really isn't the issue in this case, though. It's just such a huge change. At the end of the day, NO ONE shoots 100%. Sure, people have their perfect games here and there, but there's no one that never misses. There's still room for improvement. Everyone has the opportunity to be just as good as anybody else. That being said, how far away are we from players that just never miss? This sport/game is still pretty young. I don't know....both sides can be argued well. One thing that might help is changing rebuttal rules for those using the WSOBP rules. Yeah yeah....I know better than anyone that it can be done, but at the end of the day, rebutting multiple cups going back and forth allowing no misses is fucking hard as hell. Just throwing that thought out there. This really is a problem, but it's so hard to determine how to fix it. You have to cater to the whining bitches who claim to be "dunked" on and say "Fuck it. Lets go play my underage sister and her friends in our parent's garage for Skittles instead." You'll never see them again because their little egos get crushed and they're embarrassed. However, they are bodies with money and they're important to the community. What about a handicap being instituted? Would someone like Dane and Vince be willing to play an entire tournament starting with only 7 cups? Something to consider, I guess. It keeps the games close, keeps the shit players coming and it keeps the elite from having to sit at home. Once again, just brainstorming. Great thread, Jamie.
CC91 Joined: 09.06.2007 Age: 26 Total Games: 56 W/L %: 67.86 Avg CD: 1.45 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 01:17 pm Post subject: the future of pong "dub" What about a handicap being instituted? Would someone like Dane and Vince be willing to play an entire tournament starting with only 7 cups? Something to consider, I guess. It keeps the games close, keeps the shit players coming and it keeps the elite from having to sit at home. Once again, just brainstorming. I think it be too hard to implement a handicap rule, how would u judge who gets handicapped and by how much? i really dont even think a 3 cup handicap is that big of a deal, sure the game MAY be a bit closer...but in the end its just that much more demoralizing to the ppl who lose...i would definitly never show my face again if i got a 3-4-5 cup advantage and lost
DrunkenBear Joined: 02.19.2009 Age: 26 Total Games: 82 W/L %: 50 Avg CD: -0.26 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 02:04 pm Post subject: the future of pong A huge challenge to me is that I can not use beer in the cups. I can't even reward teams for winning. i.e. everyone is gauranteed 2 games which = 2 pitchers of beer. If one team goes 0-2 they are done and only got 2 pitchers, if a team goes 1-2 they get 3 pitchers of beer thus rewarding them with alcohol for the one game they won. In Illinois it is illegeal to have a happy hour, play drinking games or reward in alcohol. I was already shut down once becasue of it, so that one is out the question. I don't have a very good leg to stand on if I went to these bigger bars and said I will bring in a crowd Saturday Night 7pm when they already have a crowd coming in, that is why I start mine at 2:30-3:30 to make the bar happy and bring people in when they dont usually have anyone. Has anyone done the 1 team bid and done? They can still play but not with the same teammate. I would not monitor other tournaments they played in just mine. Let me know some feedback on the 1 and done idea.
DrunkenBear Joined: 02.19.2009 Age: 26 Total Games: 82 W/L %: 50 Avg CD: -0.26 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 02:06 pm Post subject: the future of pong Yes I know people well bitch and complain but do you think they will suck it up and find different partners to come play with or just not come at all?
the champ Joined: 09.20.2006 Age: 31 Total Games: 42 W/L %: 69.05 Avg CD: 1.29 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 02:24 pm Post subject: the future of pong "dub" I Is the answer longer tables? I'm going to have to say no. What will people do with the tables they've spent hundreds of dollars on? I personally have 3, and would be pretty bummed if all of the sudden my tables became obsolete, I guess. Yes, it would suck. But on the other hand they wouldn't be totally obsolete. They're still beer pong tables, just wouldn't be much good for competitive tournaments. The best players will be the best players on any table (maybe even moreso on longer tables) but the perception of "dunking" is a problem. The way I see it you either institute an unenforceable elbow rule which would be a mess or you get bigger tables. That being said, how far away are we from players that just never miss? This sport/game is still pretty young. I don't know....both sides can be argued well. I've thought about that after reading Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. According to that pretty much any activity takes 10,000 hours to master. No one has hit 10,000 hours, but they're getting there. One thing that might help is changing rebuttal rules for those using the WSOBP rules. Yeah yeah....I know better than anyone that it can be done, but at the end of the day, rebutting multiple cups going back and forth allowing no misses is fucking hard as hell. Somebody will have to run the computer simulation. But I'm guessing the difficult rebuttal rules actually increase volatility and help lousier teams get a win because easier rebuttal rules force teams to hit more and more last cups. This really is a problem, but it's so hard to determine how to fix it. You have to cater to the whining bitches who claim to be "dunked" on and say "Fuck it. Lets go play my underage sister and her friends in our parent's garage for Skittles instead." You'll never see them again because their little egos get crushed and they're embarrassed. However, they are bodies with money and they're important to the community. Exactly. No one finds them more irritating than me, but if you want big money payouts you absolutely need them to keep showing up. As for the one and done rules being discussed to me this is a no brainer. I wouldn't allow anyone to win more than one satellite. (I like beerponggods idea of having guys come and lose on purpose) More winners is good for the game. A guy wins a satellite you probably have a customer for years even if he never wins again. Only allow winners to play with people who haven't won so there's always one new winner? Great. You get one excited new customer for years. But why not no repeats allowed and there's always two new winners - twice as great. Yes it sucks for the expert players in the short run, but it benefits them in the long run to have a broader group of players who will keep bucking up because they've had some success in the past. Last edited on Nov 20th 2009, 02:26 pm
DrunkenBear Joined: 02.19.2009 Age: 26 Total Games: 82 W/L %: 50 Avg CD: -0.26 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 02:30 pm Post subject: the future of pong Ok lets say Nick V wins the first tourney of the year. I ran 15 this year, now him and his partner dont come to anymore tournaments, now if i split them up then the next tournament I get 2 teams not zero. If i keep telling people no they cant play then by the end of next year I will have no teams left after 20 tournaments. That is why i am interested in trying the 1 and done idea. I mean if Nick cant win again at all he wont come
the champ Joined: 09.20.2006 Age: 31 Total Games: 42 W/L %: 69.05 Avg CD: 1.29 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 02:43 pm Post subject: the future of pong "DrunkenBear" Ok lets say Nick V wins the first tourney of the year. I ran 15 this year, now him and his partner dont come to anymore tournaments, now if i split them up then the next tournament I get 2 teams not zero. That's a good point. It's possible they would each bring new blood to the tournament. Hmmmm... how about after you win you have to play with a partner who has NEVER ATTENDED a tournament before. Then you've always got new blood coming in, your veterans have an incentive to bring new people in, and it's not Mike Paps winning with each of his regular pong buddies. Just like poker, you need growth (read: new money coming in) to make money be it money from playing or money from administering tournaments. I slaughtered online poker from 2004-2006. The game now is still plenty big, but the GROWTH (read: new stupid money) isn't there so I can't win like I used to it's not worth my time. Last edited on Nov 20th 2009, 02:44 pm
billy Joined: 01.01.1991 Age: 30 Total Games: 1 W/L %: 100 Avg CD: 1.00 Full Stats	Posted: Nov 20th 2009, 02:43 pm Post subject: the future of pong I won't add too much substance here, if any, but this issue has been on our radar for a while, and I've discussed it with many of you offline (especially league organizers). I actually just mentioned it in an email to Austin yesterday. I have some thoughts on the matter, but I don't feel like I have a good grasp on a potential complete solution. We'll be keeping an eye on this thread, and I look forward to seeing what we may all be able to come up with.