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Joined: 01.01.1991

Age: 31
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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 12:26 am
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • I did see that. We're working on it....
Joined: 10.05.2007

Age: 21
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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 12:30 am
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • "skinny"
    "fresh302"

    there is another thread where skinny brings up, maybe, changing the format of day 3 to a best 2 out of 3 format....i def think that a 2 out of 3 format would make the final day of the WSOBP more interesting

    Yes, I have proposed making day 3 a single-elim, best 2 out of 3 format. That option is still on the table. However, if we do not go that route, and continue to keep a double-elim format, then I am fairly certain that most people would agree that yes, it would be unfair for 'the slate to be wiped clean' for the final match. That would take away the real advantage of winning your way  through the winners bracket, which doesn't really make sense. This years tournament, where Getcha Popcorn Ready played Smashing Time three times, is a perfect example of that.
     
    If you are arguing for a change away from the double-elim format, then that's fine, but you can't have a double-elim bracket where the final round has both teams go in even.
     
    Also, I should point out that while I may be a proponent of doing a single-elim 2 out of 3 for the final day, I don't know that I would agree that it would be more 'interesting' per se. I think that double-elim brackets do make things interesting, but I'm starting to think that the 2 out of 3 makes a lot of sense for Beer Pong, especially when a cold team is playing a team that's been playing.

    I dont think the 2/3 game single elim portrays the best team just because of the single elim. so all the top teams meet early and knock each other out and a bunch of randoms make it to the finals games? what does that prove? The teams in the final games deserve to be there or are the best in the world? I dont think so  just shows they didnt meet smashing time, IWC, CFK early on day 3 because in the double elim its all good teams at the end matching up against eachother and no chance for a random team to make it that far without playing amazing. Do you really think if "We own your face" next year and " smashing time" meet the first round of the single elim best 2/3 on day 3 and have an epic battle and say " smashing time loses" that they deserve to be ranked #60 or something in the world? When they would forsure come back from the lose if it was double elim beat all the randoms and be in the top 5 by the end of the tournament where they deserve to be.  I can see best 2/3 the game before the final 64 so all the cold teams that waited till the third row to play on day 3 arent at a disadvanage but not the whole day. Every tourney you play at is double elim and it truly brings the best teams to the finals. One loss is like a wake up call and then you just start "smashing teams-as ron would say" Then get revenge on the team that beat you earlier in a new game at a new time. Changing the structure every year seems a little ridiculous because it seems like were saying " hmm I wonder how we have to play this year when we get to Vegas"  I know there are a billion arguments that could be brought into this so I am not debating  Skinny's opinion he obviously knows tournaments better than me, just sharing mine.
     

     
Joined: 10.29.2008

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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 12:31 am
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • Here is the thing. All the ideas for the third day are really a step in the right direction. Honestly we should do some combining of the ideas. I agree that the more beer pong to play/watch is much better. You say people may get bored and leave..well these ppl came all this way to vegas for beer pong. They love it and prob cant get enough of it..so the more the better. So we should def keep in the double elimination bracket but incorporate the 2/3 in it. Such as making the winners bracket part two out of three and the losers bracket how it is. When we were playing this year and made it too the third day, every game we played that day we went in ice cold. Being ice cold we still barely lost and i know if we had two out of three match-ups we more then likely would of walked away with the W. But all in all the tournament was ran great. I've played in other sport tournaments for many years and this was one of the best run events i have ever been too. So if you decided to keep it the same as this year.. That would be cool too. Oh btw if you decided not to change anything, another good idea to keep the "going into a game ice cold" issue done is maybe have some practice tables set up in another area of the main room. There was plenty of space and def plenty of tables. Just some ideas...And the Cardinals are gonna run over the Steelers
  • Last edited on Jan 19th 2009, 12:34 am
Joined: 10.20.2008

Age: 25
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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 02:02 am
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • Steelers>Cardinals.....Period.
Joined: 04.23.2008

Age: 25
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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 11:38 am
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • "drellis123"
    "skinny"
    "fresh302"

    there is another thread where skinny brings up, maybe, changing the format of day 3 to a best 2 out of 3 format....i def think that a 2 out of 3 format would make the final day of the WSOBP more interesting

    Yes, I have proposed making day 3 a single-elim, best 2 out of 3 format. That option is still on the table. However, if we do not go that route, and continue to keep a double-elim format, then I am fairly certain that most people would agree that yes, it would be unfair for 'the slate to be wiped clean' for the final match. That would take away the real advantage of winning your way  through the winners bracket, which doesn't really make sense. This years tournament, where Getcha Popcorn Ready played Smashing Time three times, is a perfect example of that.
     
    If you are arguing for a change away from the double-elim format, then that's fine, but you can't have a double-elim bracket where the final round has both teams go in even.
     
    Also, I should point out that while I may be a proponent of doing a single-elim 2 out of 3 for the final day, I don't know that I would agree that it would be more 'interesting' per se. I think that double-elim brackets do make things interesting, but I'm starting to think that the 2 out of 3 makes a lot of sense for Beer Pong, especially when a cold team is playing a team that's been playing.

    I dont think the 2/3 game single elim portrays the best team just because of the single elim. so all the top teams meet early and knock each other out and a bunch of randoms make it to the finals games? what does that prove? The teams in the final games deserve to be there or are the best in the world? I dont think so  just shows they didnt meet smashing time, IWC, CFK early on day 3 because in the double elim its all good teams at the end matching up against eachother and no chance for a random team to make it that far without playing amazing. Do you really think if "We own your face" next year and " smashing time" meet the first round of the single elim best 2/3 on day 3 and have an epic battle and say " smashing time loses" that they deserve to be ranked #60 or something in the world? When they would forsure come back from the lose if it was double elim beat all the randoms and be in the top 5 by the end of the tournament where they deserve to be.  I can see best 2/3 the game before the final 64 so all the cold teams that waited till the third row to play on day 3 arent at a disadvanage but not the whole day. Every tourney you play at is double elim and it truly brings the best teams to the finals. One loss is like a wake up call and then you just start "smashing teams-as ron would say" Then get revenge on the team that beat you earlier in a new game at a new time. Changing the structure every year seems a little ridiculous because it seems like were saying " hmm I wonder how we have to play this year when we get to Vegas"  I know there are a billion arguments that could be brought into this so I am not debating  Skinny's opinion he obviously knows tournaments better than me, just sharing mine.
     
     
     

     

     

     
    Dude...If it were to become a Best 2/3 single Elim tournament on day three...the best teams couldn't eliminate each other early because they would all be seeded against the corresponding low ranked team. That's how all playoffs are done when it's single Elimination. You see what I'm saying? There's no need to worry about that.
Joined: 10.17.2008

Age: 28
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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 11:46 am
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • "teamclutch1"
    Dude...If it were to become a Best 2/3 single Elim tournament on day three...the best teams couldn't eliminate each other early because they would all be seeded against the corresponding low ranked team. That's how all playoffs are done when it's single Elimination. You see what I'm saying? There's no need to worry about that.

    Yeah, but the seeding is never perfect - it's far from it.  I think Smashing Time was the #33 seed this year after going 10-2 on the first two days, so in a straight-up 64-team single elim bracket, they would meet the #1 seed in the first round.
Joined: 04.23.2008

Age: 25
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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 01:05 pm
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • "dam_O_nation"
    "teamclutch1"
    Dude...If it were to become a Best 2/3 single Elim tournament on day three...the best teams couldn't eliminate each other early because they would all be seeded against the corresponding low ranked team. That's how all playoffs are done when it's single Elimination. You see what I'm saying? There's no need to worry about that.

    Yeah, but the seeding is never perfect - it's far from it.  I think Smashing Time was the #33 seed this year after going 10-2 on the first two days, so in a straight-up 64-team single elim bracket, they would meet the #1 seed in the first round.

     
    You're wrong on two points there. One they would play the 32nd seeded team. Two hindsight is Twenty twenty...if they were the 33rd seed day three that's because of there record. Thats how playoffs work. Too say that just because we know how good they are they should be seeded higher or too look at the evidence that they won and say there seed should have been higher isn.t a fair estimate of the situation.
Joined: 08.20.2008

Age: 27
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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 01:40 pm
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • "teamclutch1"
    "dam_O_nation"
    "teamclutch1"
    Dude...If it were to become a Best 2/3 single Elim tournament on day three...the best teams couldn't eliminate each other early because they would all be seeded against the corresponding low ranked team. That's how all playoffs are done when it's single Elimination. You see what I'm saying? There's no need to worry about that.

    Yeah, but the seeding is never perfect - it's far from it.  I think Smashing Time was the #33 seed this year after going 10-2 on the first two days, so in a straight-up 64-team single elim bracket, they would meet the #1 seed in the first round.

     
    You're wrong on two points there. One they would play the 32nd seeded team. Two hindsight is Twenty twenty...if they were the 33rd seed day three that's because of there record. Thats how playoffs work. Too say that just because we know how good they are they should be seeded higher or too look at the evidence that they won and say there seed should have been higher isn.t a fair estimate of the situation.

    i agree 100%. the first 2 days are there to determine seeding for day 3.
     
    one thing i would change about the seeding after day 2 is to seed teams with the same records based on strength of schedule, as opposed to cup differential. anyone with me on this?
Joined: 01.01.1991

Age: 27
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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 02:14 pm
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • "wianek"
    "teamclutch1"
    "dam_O_nation"
    "teamclutch1"
    Dude...If it were to become a Best 2/3 single Elim tournament on day three...the best teams couldn't eliminate each other early because they would all be seeded against the corresponding low ranked team. That's how all playoffs are done when it's single Elimination. You see what I'm saying? There's no need to worry about that.

    Yeah, but the seeding is never perfect - it's far from it.  I think Smashing Time was the #33 seed this year after going 10-2 on the first two days, so in a straight-up 64-team single elim bracket, they would meet the #1 seed in the first round.

     
    You're wrong on two points there. One they would play the 32nd seeded team. Two hindsight is Twenty twenty...if they were the 33rd seed day three that's because of there record. Thats how playoffs work. Too say that just because we know how good they are they should be seeded higher or too look at the evidence that they won and say there seed should have been higher isn.t a fair estimate of the situation.

    i agree 100%. the first 2 days are there to determine seeding for day 3.
     
    one thing i would change about the seeding after day 2 is to seed teams with the same records based on strength of schedule, as opposed to cup differential. anyone with me on this?

    yea i brought up strength of schedule before on another thread...i believe i said something like
     
    on the first 2 days whats happens if u play 10 teams outta ur 12 that didnt even make it to 3rd day so ur 10-2 +25  and some other team plays say 8 teams that did make it to the 3rd day and have the same record but a lower cup diff.
Joined: 08.20.2008

Age: 27
Total Games: 47
W/L %: 80.85
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  • Quote

    Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 02:32 pm
    Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game.

  • "pandemonium2"
    "wianek"
    "teamclutch1"
    "dam_O_nation"
    "teamclutch1"
    Dude...If it were to become a Best 2/3 single Elim tournament on day three...the best teams couldn't eliminate each other early because they would all be seeded against the corresponding low ranked team. That's how all playoffs are done when it's single Elimination. You see what I'm saying? There's no need to worry about that.

    Yeah, but the seeding is never perfect - it's far from it.  I think Smashing Time was the #33 seed this year after going 10-2 on the first two days, so in a straight-up 64-team single elim bracket, they would meet the #1 seed in the first round.

     
    You're wrong on two points there. One they would play the 32nd seeded team. Two hindsight is Twenty twenty...if they were the 33rd seed day three that's because of there record. Thats how playoffs work. Too say that just because we know how good they are they should be seeded higher or too look at the evidence that they won and say there seed should have been higher isn.t a fair estimate of the situation.

    i agree 100%. the first 2 days are there to determine seeding for day 3.
     
    one thing i would change about the seeding after day 2 is to seed teams with the same records based on strength of schedule, as opposed to cup differential. anyone with me on this?

    yea i brought up strength of schedule before on another thread...i believe i said something like
     
    on the first 2 days whats happens if u play 10 teams outta ur 12 that didnt even make it to 3rd day so ur 10-2 +25  and some other team plays say 8 teams that did make it to the 3rd day and have the same record but a lower cup diff.

    yup, i think makes a lot more sense to seed teams based on SOS, rather than CD. The shitty part is that some 7-5 teams probably deserved to make day 3 more than some 8-4 teams. What is 3 of those 5 losses were against top 20 teams, while the 8-4 team didn't play a single top 20 team?
     
    I actually think there should be some sort of algorithm for deciding which teams make it to day 3. SOS should probably account for 8.3% (1/12) to 16.7% (2/12).
     
    Maybe each win would be worth 1 point and the team with the toughest strength of schedule would receive another 2pts, while the team with the weakest SOS would receive 0 pts (it would decrease linearly in between).
     
    Thoughts?
  • Last edited on Jan 19th 2009, 02:36 pm
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