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Kinda confused about championship game.

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skinny Joined: 01.01.1991 Age: 31 Total Games: 1 W/L %: 100 Avg CD: 1.00 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 03:08 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. "wianek" yup, i think makes a lot more sense to seed teams based on SOS, rather than CD. The shitty part is that some 7-5 teams probably deserved to make day 3 more than some 8-4 teams. What is 3 of those 5 losses were against top 20 teams, while the 8-4 team didn't play a single top 20 team? I actually think there should be some sort of algorithm for deciding which teams make it to day 3. SOS should probably account for 8.3% (1/12) to 16.7% (2/12). Maybe each win would be worth 1 point and the team with the toughest strength of schedule would receive another 2pts, while the team with the weakest SOS would receive 0 pts (it would decrease linearly in between). Thoughts? In general, I am against this sort of thing. Could we do it? Sure. Is it logical and/or reasonable? Possibly. Is it easy for most people to understand? Not really. Are people going to have an idea of what it takes to make it back? No. The main thing is this: People want an easy way of quantifying their rankings. Sure, there were 7-5's that were better teams than some of the 8-4's, but I believe the Cup Differential is a perfectly reasonable way to evenly compare teams. Furthermore, I don't personally worry too much about what it takes to make it past the bottom cut; if a team is 7-5, they are probably not going to win the WSOBP. We set the bottom cut at a level where we expect everyone near there to drop out in the finals, and usually, that's what ends up happening.
dam_O_nation Joined: 10.17.2008 Age: 28 Total Games: 14 W/L %: 64.29 Avg CD: 0.57 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 03:10 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. "teamclutch1" You're wrong on two points there. One they would play the 32nd seeded team. Two hindsight is Twenty twenty...if they were the 33rd seed day three that's because of there record. Thats how playoffs work. Too say that just because we know how good they are they should be seeded higher or too look at the evidence that they won and say there seed should have been higher isn.t a fair estimate of the situation. Well what I'm saying is that there's a lot of randomness in this game, so it is VERY likely that two Top 10 teams will be matched up in an early round, because not all teams that SHOULD be Top 10 will be seeded in the Top 10, in fact most probably won't. And no, I am pretty sure I'm right that in a 64-team single elim bracket, the #1 seed, if they win in the first round, will play the winner of the #32 and 33 seeds in the second round.
prusch Joined: 08.22.2006 Age: 30 Total Games: 145 W/L %: 77.24 Avg CD: 1.70 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 03:11 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. "fresh302" "prusch" It's a double elim tournament. Smashing Time went through til the finals with no losses. GPR went through to the finals with one loss. In a double elim tournament, the team from the loser's bracket ALWAYS has to win twice in a row. In this specific case, it actually worked out that Smashing Time and Getcha Popcorn Ready DID play a best 2/3 series. They met in the winner's bracket, and Smashing Time won. GPR had to beat Not Even Close to make it back to the Finals against Smashing Time, where they won one, and lost one. Putting both teams on an even slate for the finals would be completely unfair to the team from the winners bracket. unfair? i disagree.....you have a 2 day prelim to determine who makes it to day 3, you have a single elim round to determine who continues from there, i see no reason why the double elimination tournament can not be used to weed the teams down to two. the idea of the top two teams meeting in the championship, records cleared, for a best 2 out of 3 match up, to me (my opinion), just sounds like it would make the championship that much more exciting.....in the championship, get your popcorn won the first game, smashing time won the second, i def would of like to seen a third game..... I'm going to agree that the actual championship game, with the entertainment value weighted heavily, would be more fan-friendly to watch should the two teams start at the same level. To use a double elim tournament weed the field to two teams - then clear records, would not be ideal, or fair, in my opinion (and I think most would agree). Clearing records before the final match would be ignoring the fact that 15 minutes prior - Smashing Time beat Getcha Popcorn Ready. They played 3 times that day with Smashing Time winning 2. How shitty would it be to beat a team in the winner's bracket final, then have that team win their way back to the championship through the losers bracket, only to have to beat them 2/3 more times (if records were cleared) - essentially needing to win 3/4 against that team, while they would only need to win 2/4 to become champs. That method is a little short-sighted.
prusch Joined: 08.22.2006 Age: 30 Total Games: 145 W/L %: 77.24 Avg CD: 1.70 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 03:13 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. "skinny" if a team is 7-5, they are probably not going to win the WSOBP. Been some close calls though haven't there? WSOBP II 3rd place - New England Steelers WSOBP III 2nd place - IWC
skinny Joined: 01.01.1991 Age: 31 Total Games: 1 W/L %: 100 Avg CD: 1.00 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 04:25 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. You bring up harsh memories Peter...
dub Joined: 01.01.1991 Age: 81 Total Games: 125 W/L %: 65.6 Avg CD: 1.09 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 04:32 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. "prusch" "skinny" if a team is 7-5, they are probably not going to win the WSOBP. Been some close calls though haven't there? WSOBP II 3rd place - New England Steelers WSOBP III 2nd place - IWC Harsh memories, indeed. Haha. Seriously though, it's all about the team that's hot on that 3rd day. No team that's gone 12-0 in prelims has even made the finals. You have to taste defeat at least once over those 3 days. It's been proven. You might not want to taste defeat as many times as we normally do in prelims, though. Haha. Last edited on Jan 19th 2009, 04:35 pm
wianek Joined: 08.20.2008 Age: 27 Total Games: 47 W/L %: 80.85 Avg CD: 2.30 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 04:42 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. "skinny" "wianek" yup, i think makes a lot more sense to seed teams based on SOS, rather than CD. The shitty part is that some 7-5 teams probably deserved to make day 3 more than some 8-4 teams. What is 3 of those 5 losses were against top 20 teams, while the 8-4 team didn't play a single top 20 team? I actually think there should be some sort of algorithm for deciding which teams make it to day 3. SOS should probably account for 8.3% (1/12) to 16.7% (2/12). Maybe each win would be worth 1 point and the team with the toughest strength of schedule would receive another 2pts, while the team with the weakest SOS would receive 0 pts (it would decrease linearly in between). Thoughts? In general, I am against this sort of thing. Could we do it? Sure. Is it logical and/or reasonable? Possibly. Is it easy for most people to understand? Not really. Are people going to have an idea of what it takes to make it back? No. The main thing is this: People want an easy way of quantifying their rankings. Sure, there were 7-5's that were better teams than some of the 8-4's, but I believe the Cup Differential is a perfectly reasonable way to evenly compare teams. Furthermore, I don't personally worry too much about what it takes to make it past the bottom cut; if a team is 7-5, they are probably not going to win the WSOBP. We set the bottom cut at a level where we expect everyone near there to drop out in the finals, and usually, that's what ends up happening. Skinny, I definitely see your point, but I think there needs to be a better balance between rules that are easy to understand and rules that are the most fair. There is no reason why an 8-4 team with a high cup diff. that played crappy teams should advance over an 8-4 team that played many top teams and had a low cup diff. It's easy to rack up a high cup differential if you play crappy teams. The only way to get around this scenario is to incorporate strength of schedule into the rankings and seeding process. And come on, strength of schedule is not that difficult to understand. If some people can't understand it then... perhaps they should actually cut down on the amount of beer pong they play.
Andolf Joined: 10.29.2008 Age: 25 Total Games: 85 W/L %: 78.82 Avg CD: 2.02 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 06:55 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. I see every ones point on this matter. But it would be too hard to make SOS. We dont have stats that we can use through out the year..we just have this one tournament to go off of. And some ppl it may be there first tournament and nobody really knows how good or bad those teams are. The one thing i didnt like was those fringle teams...they were there for show (some of them) and were obviously a automatic loss and they gave a huge boost for your cup diff...so if we can limit those teams some how. But we also played a team who was one and nine at the time we played them and we were eight and two..and they played us has if it was the first game of the tournament. even though they had no shot of making it..so not every team just rolls over when they are out of the running. The only fair way to do it for every team..is to keep it random.
bnentwig Joined: 11.10.2007 Age: 26 Total Games: 75 W/L %: 84 Avg CD: 2.55 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 07:26 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. "dub" "prusch" "skinny" if a team is 7-5, they are probably not going to win the WSOBP. Been some close calls though haven't there? WSOBP II 3rd place - New England Steelers WSOBP III 2nd place - IWC Harsh memories, indeed. Haha. Seriously though, it's all about the team that's hot on that 3rd day. No team that's gone 12-0 in prelims has even made the finals. You have to taste defeat at least once over those 3 days. It's been proven. You might not want to taste defeat as many times as we normally do in prelims, though. Haha. Actually, we (Getcha Popcorn Ready) went 12-0 in prelims and made it to the finals!
ptiger21 Joined: 02.05.2008 Total Games: 0 W/L %: 0 Avg CD: 0 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 19th 2009, 08:23 pm Post subject: Kinda confused about championship game. "wianek" "skinny" "wianek" yup, i think makes a lot more sense to seed teams based on SOS, rather than CD. The shitty part is that some 7-5 teams probably deserved to make day 3 more than some 8-4 teams. What is 3 of those 5 losses were against top 20 teams, while the 8-4 team didn't play a single top 20 team? I actually think there should be some sort of algorithm for deciding which teams make it to day 3. SOS should probably account for 8.3% (1/12) to 16.7% (2/12). Maybe each win would be worth 1 point and the team with the toughest strength of schedule would receive another 2pts, while the team with the weakest SOS would receive 0 pts (it would decrease linearly in between). Thoughts? In general, I am against this sort of thing. Could we do it? Sure. Is it logical and/or reasonable? Possibly. Is it easy for most people to understand? Not really. Are people going to have an idea of what it takes to make it back? No. The main thing is this: People want an easy way of quantifying their rankings. Sure, there were 7-5's that were better teams than some of the 8-4's, but I believe the Cup Differential is a perfectly reasonable way to evenly compare teams. Furthermore, I don't personally worry too much about what it takes to make it past the bottom cut; if a team is 7-5, they are probably not going to win the WSOBP. We set the bottom cut at a level where we expect everyone near there to drop out in the finals, and usually, that's what ends up happening. Skinny, I definitely see your point, but I think there needs to be a better balance between rules that are easy to understand and rules that are the most fair. There is no reason why an 8-4 team with a high cup diff. that played crappy teams should advance over an 8-4 team that played many top teams and had a low cup diff. It's easy to rack up a high cup differential if you play crappy teams. The only way to get around this scenario is to incorporate strength of schedule into the rankings and seeding process. And come on, strength of schedule is not that difficult to understand. If some people can't understand it then... perhaps they should actually cut down on the amount of beer pong they play. Strength of Schedule will be almost impossible to determine really. Those who have been associated with WSOBP and beer pong in general for the last few years know who the good teams and players (more important) are. But could you imagine if randomly the top 12 placers at this years WSOBP were to be each other's opponents in next years first two days of competition? Let's say that Ron and Pops finish out those two days with a 6-6 record (not out of the question considering the competition), you would argue their strength of schedule should allow them to still advance....but on the strength of beating a 3-9 Schools in Session and a 1-11 Getcha Popcorn Ready? See what I'm saying?