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mikevit Joined: 04.30.2008 Age: 26 Total Games: 147 W/L %: 74.83 Avg CD: 2.01 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 05:39 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates "andyman499" Did anyone else think the bracket was a little messed up. I know some people or most of you never saw it and after the first 2 days there weren't anymore updates basically leaving people in the dark. Did people like how it was run after day 2 or did you want how it was last year?? It seemed like to me and some people that the bracket got messed up and it was almost like it was being setup the rest of the way. We played one team had to win the first game to win the bracket and then right after that we had to play them in a 2 out of 3 it just made no sense...anyone else experience something similar?? Were you coming out of the winners or losers part of your bracket?
andyman499 Joined: 01.18.2009 Total Games: 0 W/L %: 0 Avg CD: 0 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 05:42 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates seemed like it went back and forth i really just want to see the bracket put up so i could figure this out lol
j0schm03 Joined: 10.05.2007 Age: 26 Total Games: 62 W/L %: 77.42 Avg CD: 1.77 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 05:48 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates Yea Andy I was completely confused on this and it did seem set up to me as well. The first thing I don't understand is that me and Dane coming out of the winners bracket only had to lose one game to you guys to go to the losers bracket. It was announced that if you guys won one game it would send it to a best 2of3. Well that makes no sense that we only have to lose 1 game to go to the losers bracket when everyone else got to lose 2. The second part I don't get is how we had to play you twice in a row when pretty much everyone said noone was suppose to play the same team twice in a row. The third part I don't get lol is how we even ended up playing you guys in the first place, when god given was in our bracket but miraculously moved to another bracket and was replaced by you guys. I mean regardless we didn't hit cups I know. But so many people came up to us after that all happened and said these exact same things. I'm also interested in some explanation of all of this.
prusch Joined: 08.22.2006 Age: 31 Total Games: 161 W/L %: 77.02 Avg CD: 1.76 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 06:10 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates Skinny can explain, but here's my take: Brackets can be a little confusing if you've never tried setting up a double elim tournament. The first part of the final day was explained as being eight 16-team brackets. Based on how it played out, I believe it was more set up so that it was one big 128 team tournament that was massaged to produce 8 teams. The winner's bracket is easily distinguished - you play until there are 8 teams left. The loser's side is a lot less clear cut. I believe the loser's from each round were cycled so that they were likely placed in a 'different bracket' (which cut down on losing to the same team twice). Instead of playing out the whole bracket, they stop when 8 teams are left in the loser's side, have those 8 teams play one of the winner's bracket teams, and that's why you played someone that wasn't in 'your bracket'. As for the format of playing 1 game, and then a 2/3 series... this is the problem I see with doing a different format for winners and losers brackets. At some point, two teams meet and they have to play both formats. So - either you start with one game, lose, then go to 2/3. Or you start with the 2/3, then go to one game. There definitely was a method to the madness. There was an attempt to speed things up at the end which created some confusion (God Given playing Gossip Girl in one game, then coming back to finish out the 2/3 series later), but I'm 99% sure that there wasn't deliberate attempts to move matchups around to give anyone an easier or harder draw. Hope that helps. Last edited on Jan 6th 2010, 06:16 pm
j0schm03 Joined: 10.05.2007 Age: 26 Total Games: 62 W/L %: 77.42 Avg CD: 1.77 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 06:16 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates That's what I tried explaining to other people too was that it should start with a best 2of3 if you lose that from the winners bracket that's your first loss in a typical double elim bracket then you go to a single elim. But for some reason it was announced the other way around. The whole cycling the teams thing I don't know the point of that, especially if your placed in each bracket based on your seeding. Not sure if that's how the original brackets were set up or if it was random draw where you were placed. I've run many tournaments in Michigan so I definitely understand the typical double elim brackets but the way it was announced and the switching of teams was confusing. We didn't hit cups against since sliced bread plain and simple, but just curious on their thought process on all of this.
nickNYC Joined: 06.15.2009 Total Games: 0 W/L %: 0 Avg CD: 0 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 06:28 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates I mentioned this yesterday and watched everyone of smashing times games and stayed ontop of who they had next. Once it got down to the final six it seamed as if they were waiting to match teams up as opposed to a set bracket. At one point I remember Pop arguing with Skinny that he should not be playing Ask about us . Guess we will just have to wait and see the reasoning. Gossip Girl played Since slice bread in multiple best of 3's which I didnt understand. Also why did Doin hella much get put back in the same bracket as Ask about us?
sonomajoe Joined: 08.02.2008 Age: 28 Total Games: 349 W/L %: 75.07 Avg CD: 1.72 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 06:33 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates As far as I understand it the reason the game was 1 to start and not a best of 3 was because its a team with a loss coming in against a team that has not lost yet....same thing happen with us against ask about us in the finals of the bracket. You might think of this as unfair but to lose the series from the non loss side you would have to lose 3 out of 4 against that team that came in with a loss. In our case the series actually ended 2-2 but we lost because we had come in with a loss already.....I does seem a bit confusing but it all worked out!
skinny Joined: 01.01.1991 Age: 31 Total Games: 6 W/L %: 50 Avg CD: 0.83 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 07:05 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates I'll post the brackets up as soon as I get a few free minutes. The brackets exactly followed the structure I had laid out in advance, and no changes were made to that. It definitely confused people, which is something I need to work on for next year.
rickshep1 Joined: 10.10.2007 Age: 27 Total Games: 108 W/L %: 74.07 Avg CD: 1.62 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 07:09 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates "skinny" I'll post the brackets up as soon as I get a few free minutes. The brackets exactly followed the structure I had laid out in advance, and no changes were made to that. It definitely confused people, which is something I need to work on for next year. It confused hella people, i had to play an extra win or go home game!!!!
mikevit Joined: 04.30.2008 Age: 26 Total Games: 147 W/L %: 74.83 Avg CD: 2.01 Full Stats	Posted: Jan 6th 2010, 08:09 pm Post subject: Bracket and Updates From everything i have read so far and heard (about 30 min on the phone with Kessler trying hash out the way the final 8 went) I believe they 100% followed the EXACT FORMAT that was laid out in the rules (with the exception of changing a best 3of5 to 2of3). I will attempt to enter my explanation, but be forewarned it might be long. 8 16 team "Groups" Winners Bracket: The Rule: The entire field of 128 teams will be broken down into 8 groups of 16 teams. Each group of 16 will enter into a "double-elimination" bracket. In the Winner's Bracket, each round will consist of a "best 2-out-of-3" series. The Confusion: I don't think there was too much confusion with this part How it turned out: This was used as a guideline to seed the teams initially and to produce half of the final 16. This is the easiest part to follow because teams aren't placed in from a different part of the bracket. It just follows as it was shown on the screen. The Loser's Bracket: The Rule: Loser's Bracket will be single-elimination. At the end of the bracket, the Loser's Bracket winner will have to defeat the Winner's Bracket winner three times to win the group, while the Winner's Bracket winner will have to beat the Loser's Bracket winner twice. The Confusion: People didn't understand why they were not playing the same teams that were in their initial 16 team grouping. And some did not understand the match up in the "Sweet16" against the winners bracket winner. How it turned out: The loser's bracket was essentially rotated between the brackets to avoid playing the same team twice. That is how the teams that made it out of the loser's bracket ended up playing a team that was not initially in their group in the bracket finals. Also, the argument for having that final match up be one game then a best 2of3 or the other way around can be debated both ways. I will not discuss it here. They (B,D,S) made the decision and stuck with it, and i for one think it was the right one. The Final 8: The Rule: The 8 teams that win their brackets will be split up into two groups of 4. Each group of 4 will enter in a "double-elimination" bracket. In the Winner's Bracket, each round will consist of a "best 2-out-of-3" series. All games in the Loser's Bracket will be single-elimination. At the end of the bracket, the Loser's Bracket winner will have to defeat the Winner's Bracket winner three times to win the group, while the Winner's Bracket winner will have to beat the Loser's Bracket winner twice. The Controversy: People playing the same team more than once in this bracket. How it turned out: This format was absolutely followed. One bracket had Since Sliced Bread, Gossip Girl, God Given, and McAllister. The other had Smashing Time, Doin HELLA Much, Game Over Boys, and Ask About Us. I will only focus on the second of those 2 brackets (mostly Ask vs DHM) because i don't know how the other went down exactly. Round one winners: DHM beat Ask about us AND Smashing Time beat Game over Boys Round one Losers: Ask about us beat Game OverBoys Round 2 winners: Smashing Time beat DHM Round 2 losers: Ask about us beat DHM in a rematch. Bracket Finals: Smashing Time beat Ask about us Smashing Time then went on to face and beat Since Sliced Bread in the Championship Finals. Which was changed from best 3 of 5 to best 2 of 3. I hope this has helped clear things up for those of you who took the time to read. Billy, Skinny, or Duncan if any of this is wrong feel free to delete it. Last edited on Jan 6th 2010, 11:11 pm